My partner and I had many conversations before deciding to combine finances and then were like "wait how do we actually do that???" And four years later it's just us Zelling each other whenever one of us needs it. Also you made laundry sound so easy when I know it is the most annoying thing and the goddess in me sees the goddess in you
I love this update. I am so, so sorry about laundry. That seems like so much laundry. I forget if you had laundry in unit at your old place but I know it’s very hard going from having unit to having to go to a laundromat.
We had free basement laundry in Somerville, so close. The last time I had to use a laundromat I was like 22 so I’m shocked by how expensive it is—for us it’s temporary, but I can’t imagine being truly strapped and having to pay $45 just to keep your household going 🙃🙃
I really felt that part about the shortage of doctors/dentists/everything after moving from a big southern city to western mass. The housing is a joke here, too. We overbid $40,000 for a house where literally everything needs to be updated or repaired (or both). That being said, I’ll never move out of this queer oasis.
wow my ex has family in New Hampshire and they live like ten mins from Brattleboro. i went to a bookstore there once and asked if a book was there and they said “no it doesn’t come out for another week actually, would you like us to pre order it for you?” And i said “yes” even though i was only there for like three more days.
Love seeing updates on your life! As someone who grew up in the rural Midwest (and did not have the BEST time), I'm always interested to hear perspectives from queer people still living in the countryside, or deciding to move there from big cities. It seems very distressing to go all that way and still deal with a housing crisis and long waits for basic services, just like (or perhaps worse than) in Boston!
At least you had access to a Taco Bell. That's key. The town I grew up in from approximately '97-'10 didn't get a McDonald's until after I left.
I also did NOT have a great time growing up--although I'm from Appleton, WI, which is very much a small city. In recent years, the population has really boomed and there are loft condos downtown, multiple boba tea places, a visible houseless population, etc. My family wasn't able to travel much growing up so some of my best childhood memories are school field trips to nature and nature-related activities. I always wanted to live rurally, or in a small town, when I lived in Chicago and Madison, but my hesitation was that people would be homophobic or just really unfriendly (like, who would I be friends with? where would I hang out?) I wasn't sure how much to trust my fantasy of rural life.
When I started coming to Vermont, though, there were just so many other queer people that it felt like a dream. Even from older people here, I never feel like anyone is plussed when I talk about having a girlfriend or sees us out together (big footnote that I'm white and describe my gender pres as "schleppy femme," which obviously impacts how I experience and am treated in this very white state.) I also think it's hard to meet people here if you don't come in with friends, so a big part of me having a positive experiences here is having an extroverted, community-centered gf who's from here.
That was a long response!!! Thank you so much for reading :)
I grew up in the countryside on the edge of the Twin Cities' suburban ring, so I bet our childhoods had some overlap! (They are also building condos in my hometown. It makes much less sense than in Appleton, WI, which even I have heard of, as there is not even a grocery store in my hometown. It is a food desert.) One of my best days in high school was going to the local creek's park in AP Bio, putting on waders, and collecting samples to study back at school!
Thank you for sharing your experience further in your comment! To me, it sounds like having the extroverted-and-connected-girlfriend card is absolutely clutch; I'm not sure about the East Coast, but in the Midwest, you KNOW how...insular...small communities can be, even if you're NOT "different." (I'd actually be interested to hear about differences in small town Vermont vs. Wisconsin, as my understanding is that "Minnesota nice" (which is not so nice in practice) has a foothold in Wisconsin, as well. It'd be interesting to compare the two and see if attitudes are different, especially since I have the feeling that Vermont has more people who move there compared to, say, WI or MN.)
I'm always telling non-midwesterners that "Minnesota Nice" is not a compliment!! Wisconsinites love to lobb this at Minnesotans specifically, but I also feel like people in WI also use politeness as a shield and affect a very friendly, yet robotic "let's not actually get to know each other" tone when dealing with others. Not that the obligation to be outwardly kind and friendly is all bad. I have a small PT job here in Vermont and a lot of the other employees don't say hi or even acknowledge me. In Wisconsin, everyone in a given workplace setting would at least introduce themselves and say hi. There's just a stronger awareness of other people's feelings and I truly miss that, even though it is very gendered.
I do think there's hostility towards "flatlanders" or non-Vermonters, but people are pretty easily charmed if you just talk to them. I also think I get a pass for having a partner who's from here.
The other thing that feels part of this conversation is that there's not customer service culture in Vermont, so it's normal to be snapped at and treated terribly by business owners, receptionists, restaurant workers, etc. Theorizing loosely, I surmise this is because there's a huge labor shortage and understaffed workplaces are more stressful. Also, no one is going to be fired for barking at customers, not returning phone calls, leaving the front desk for an hour, not knowing basic information, etc. A lot of businesses here are profitable simply because they are the only dentist office/plumber/dog boarding facility in a given area, so they don't have to set themselves apart with a website, regular hours, timeliness, being polite, etc. So this can feel a lot like "everyone in this state is fucking rude and hates me," though it's more funny and frustrating than anything. To be honest, this is probably the biggest cultural difference between Wisconsin and Vermont. If you tried to run a business in Wisconsin that wasn't consistently professional and committed to customer experience, your ass would be grass. My mom and her friends would make sure of it.
Yes, there are even Minnesotans who think "Minnesota nice" is actually about how nice they are!! So frustrating. There's a Japanese author who moved to Wisconsin later in life and has several memoirs - for the life of me, I can't remember her name - but she compares the "Minnesota nice" phenomenon to Japanese politeness and conceptions of in-group versus out-group; it was really fascinating. Also, I CANNOT believe your workplace!! I wouldn't be able to survive. Not only a lack of acknowledgement, but no rousing conversations about the weather?? I need my fainting couch!
The insight into customer service culture (or lack thereof) is fascinating; thank you for sharing. It's interesting to me because I was under the impression that Vermont also has a good deal of tourism, so how do those two things mesh?? Maybe there's more of a customer service ethos in touristy areas? And yes, the Middle-Aged Mom Gang would run any business into the ground in the Midwest that didn't give them the respect they deserve, lmao.
if you read the email version, yes I wrote "adorable housing crisis" instead of "affordable" soooo embarrassing
My partner and I had many conversations before deciding to combine finances and then were like "wait how do we actually do that???" And four years later it's just us Zelling each other whenever one of us needs it. Also you made laundry sound so easy when I know it is the most annoying thing and the goddess in me sees the goddess in you
i loved this like i loved your grubstreet diet entries. i lol’ed at adorable housing crisis, what a great typo 🥲
thank you so much :,)
I love this update. I am so, so sorry about laundry. That seems like so much laundry. I forget if you had laundry in unit at your old place but I know it’s very hard going from having unit to having to go to a laundromat.
We had free basement laundry in Somerville, so close. The last time I had to use a laundromat I was like 22 so I’m shocked by how expensive it is—for us it’s temporary, but I can’t imagine being truly strapped and having to pay $45 just to keep your household going 🙃🙃
Hanover mentioned 🥰
fantastic, welcome to country gurl life 🤠💗
I just made butter for the first time
Love reading these!
ty ty this means the world coming from you ❤️
I really felt that part about the shortage of doctors/dentists/everything after moving from a big southern city to western mass. The housing is a joke here, too. We overbid $40,000 for a house where literally everything needs to be updated or repaired (or both). That being said, I’ll never move out of this queer oasis.
It’s surreal for sure. Ty for commiserating ❤️
wow my ex has family in New Hampshire and they live like ten mins from Brattleboro. i went to a bookstore there once and asked if a book was there and they said “no it doesn’t come out for another week actually, would you like us to pre order it for you?” And i said “yes” even though i was only there for like three more days.
probably Everyone's Books for Social Justice and the Earth, which just came under new queer ownership!! https://vtdigger.org/2023/11/08/brattleboros-once-alternative-and-now-sole-surviving-bookstore-is-changing-hands/
Love seeing updates on your life! As someone who grew up in the rural Midwest (and did not have the BEST time), I'm always interested to hear perspectives from queer people still living in the countryside, or deciding to move there from big cities. It seems very distressing to go all that way and still deal with a housing crisis and long waits for basic services, just like (or perhaps worse than) in Boston!
At least you had access to a Taco Bell. That's key. The town I grew up in from approximately '97-'10 didn't get a McDonald's until after I left.
I also did NOT have a great time growing up--although I'm from Appleton, WI, which is very much a small city. In recent years, the population has really boomed and there are loft condos downtown, multiple boba tea places, a visible houseless population, etc. My family wasn't able to travel much growing up so some of my best childhood memories are school field trips to nature and nature-related activities. I always wanted to live rurally, or in a small town, when I lived in Chicago and Madison, but my hesitation was that people would be homophobic or just really unfriendly (like, who would I be friends with? where would I hang out?) I wasn't sure how much to trust my fantasy of rural life.
When I started coming to Vermont, though, there were just so many other queer people that it felt like a dream. Even from older people here, I never feel like anyone is plussed when I talk about having a girlfriend or sees us out together (big footnote that I'm white and describe my gender pres as "schleppy femme," which obviously impacts how I experience and am treated in this very white state.) I also think it's hard to meet people here if you don't come in with friends, so a big part of me having a positive experiences here is having an extroverted, community-centered gf who's from here.
That was a long response!!! Thank you so much for reading :)
I grew up in the countryside on the edge of the Twin Cities' suburban ring, so I bet our childhoods had some overlap! (They are also building condos in my hometown. It makes much less sense than in Appleton, WI, which even I have heard of, as there is not even a grocery store in my hometown. It is a food desert.) One of my best days in high school was going to the local creek's park in AP Bio, putting on waders, and collecting samples to study back at school!
Thank you for sharing your experience further in your comment! To me, it sounds like having the extroverted-and-connected-girlfriend card is absolutely clutch; I'm not sure about the East Coast, but in the Midwest, you KNOW how...insular...small communities can be, even if you're NOT "different." (I'd actually be interested to hear about differences in small town Vermont vs. Wisconsin, as my understanding is that "Minnesota nice" (which is not so nice in practice) has a foothold in Wisconsin, as well. It'd be interesting to compare the two and see if attitudes are different, especially since I have the feeling that Vermont has more people who move there compared to, say, WI or MN.)
I'm always telling non-midwesterners that "Minnesota Nice" is not a compliment!! Wisconsinites love to lobb this at Minnesotans specifically, but I also feel like people in WI also use politeness as a shield and affect a very friendly, yet robotic "let's not actually get to know each other" tone when dealing with others. Not that the obligation to be outwardly kind and friendly is all bad. I have a small PT job here in Vermont and a lot of the other employees don't say hi or even acknowledge me. In Wisconsin, everyone in a given workplace setting would at least introduce themselves and say hi. There's just a stronger awareness of other people's feelings and I truly miss that, even though it is very gendered.
I do think there's hostility towards "flatlanders" or non-Vermonters, but people are pretty easily charmed if you just talk to them. I also think I get a pass for having a partner who's from here.
The other thing that feels part of this conversation is that there's not customer service culture in Vermont, so it's normal to be snapped at and treated terribly by business owners, receptionists, restaurant workers, etc. Theorizing loosely, I surmise this is because there's a huge labor shortage and understaffed workplaces are more stressful. Also, no one is going to be fired for barking at customers, not returning phone calls, leaving the front desk for an hour, not knowing basic information, etc. A lot of businesses here are profitable simply because they are the only dentist office/plumber/dog boarding facility in a given area, so they don't have to set themselves apart with a website, regular hours, timeliness, being polite, etc. So this can feel a lot like "everyone in this state is fucking rude and hates me," though it's more funny and frustrating than anything. To be honest, this is probably the biggest cultural difference between Wisconsin and Vermont. If you tried to run a business in Wisconsin that wasn't consistently professional and committed to customer experience, your ass would be grass. My mom and her friends would make sure of it.
Yes, there are even Minnesotans who think "Minnesota nice" is actually about how nice they are!! So frustrating. There's a Japanese author who moved to Wisconsin later in life and has several memoirs - for the life of me, I can't remember her name - but she compares the "Minnesota nice" phenomenon to Japanese politeness and conceptions of in-group versus out-group; it was really fascinating. Also, I CANNOT believe your workplace!! I wouldn't be able to survive. Not only a lack of acknowledgement, but no rousing conversations about the weather?? I need my fainting couch!
The insight into customer service culture (or lack thereof) is fascinating; thank you for sharing. It's interesting to me because I was under the impression that Vermont also has a good deal of tourism, so how do those two things mesh?? Maybe there's more of a customer service ethos in touristy areas? And yes, the Middle-Aged Mom Gang would run any business into the ground in the Midwest that didn't give them the respect they deserve, lmao.