queer advice #85: doing lesbian shit in a datey way

"thinking about the ocean, talking about our childhoods..."

Hello! Welcome back to queer advice, a reoccurring space on TV Dinner where I answer questions from real gays with real problems. Today’s question is about polyamory, the difference between romantic and sexual feelings, and a breakdown in communication. Spoiler alert: I don’t know what love is.

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xoxo, maddy

how I feel reading through the queer advice submissions folder

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Hi Maddy! I’m struggling with something that happened recently between a friend, Thea, and me. Thea and I have been friends for a little while and then a few weeks ago began hooking up and thereafter spending a lot of one-on-one time together doing lesbian shit in a datey way (thinking about the ocean, talking about our childhoods). It felt quite romantic, and the sex was hot as fuck, and it felt like we were meeting each other quite openly and honestly on an emotional level. I was so excited to be getting into something with someone who wanted the same things as I did – someone to be really into but without the pressure of it building into a long-term or exclusive relationship.

For context, we’ve both in the past couple of years started exploring polyamory but for me (and Thea I think) this was the first time practising that on any level. When we had our first check-in chat, Thea said she’s probably aromantic, and seemed quite wary because of past situations, of me becoming romantically attached. I think that was the point where I started to confuse the motions of what we were actually doing together, and the depth or type of feeling each of us had towards the other, and maybe didn’t listen to her properly because my thought was “well we’re doing romantic activities together, and I’m really enjoying them, so let’s just keep doing those things and I won’t expect anything more than that from Thea and that’s fine.” I also at that point asked her not to share any of her other dates/hook-ups with me because at the time it felt like the best way to handle the already budding feelings of jealousy I’d noted cropping up when we were hanging out with other people in our circles (which are quite small and chock-full of poly dykes).

Literally one week later, we had a Chat again. I’d decided that it was weird and unrealistic to ask Thea not to share what she was up to with other people, and she agreed. Then she said she’d started seeing someone we both know, Chris, and that she felt romantically towards them and not to me. She said all this in a way that is way less assholey but that’s basically it. I felt gut-punched. I realised then that I definitely did feel romantic towards Thea and moreover, despite my best rational thoughts, I felt really deflated and started comparing myself to Chris, who is a really nice person and v much in the dyke/poly “scene” and probably does not react to being told that someone they’re into likes someone else by crying loads and being a baby. Thea and I are Taking Some Space to figure out what we want, and I want on one hand to be able to continue seeing her in the same way if we can find a way through that works, but whether or not that happens, I'm now unsure how to navigate future relationships with other people, if Thea and I have been so not-on-the-same-page this whole time despite doing all the processing.

I've been questioning whether I am even cut out to be poly, or if these just the inevitable growing pains of being in the community for the first time. I don’t know how well you can answer that, but I really wanted to ask, what is romance? I have been thinking about this a lot since knowing Thea and I keep coming up short. To me, I think the stuff we had been doing together felt romantic, therefore it was romance, but then it sounds like to them it was ~something~ (and I do feel reassured that they care about me a lot), but not romantic. I don’t know how I’m supposed to be able to talk about this stuff with someone when you can’t climb inside their head and feel their feelings? The only words I seem to have are the things you do together, not the feelings themselves. Like, Thea’s told me and shown me on multiple occasions how much she cares about me, she emotionally supports me, thinks I’m hot, has fun with me… aren’t those the ingredients of romantic love? Or if not Love then a romantic connection of some kind? I feel like I’ve been kind of stupid this whole time and it’s hard not to beat myself up about it, and am feeling tempted to shut myself off from any other emotional connection like this ever again, because communication seems impossible. Maddy, what is love?

P.S. Sorry this is so long, I can't tell something succinctly to save my life.

Spiralling in Poly, 30

You are not stupid! You are not a baby! It sounds like you and Thea are having the parallel experience of thinking a lot about who you want to date and what you want your relationships to look like, and discovering that what sounds great in your head doesn’t map onto your experiences of sex and dating irl. This is very normal. I get so many questions from people who want to be poly but also don’t want to be poly, or are wondering if a certain identifier is right for them. And my answer is always, I don’t know! We are all inhibited by fear and societal norms. When you change something major about your life like your gender or relationship style, there’s going to be a period of experimentation and discomfort and feeling like a big doof before you find your footing. Thank dog we all have an essential, core self that lets us know when we’re on the right path, being authentic to ourselves, not setting ourselves on fire to keep other people warm, etc. Please excuse the clichés, sometimes the easiest way to say what I mean is to talk like an infinity wrist tattoo come to life.

If you were my friend and you were telling me this, I would ask you what about being poly makes you feel like, “Yes! This is THE relationship style for ME“? In your past relationships, did it feel restrictive to date and bone one person? Maybe a close friend is in an open relationship that seems really great and you want that for yourself? You mention that with Thea, you enjoyed dating without the pressure to be in a long-term, exclusive relationship. I’m wondering if you’re conflating a poly relationship with a casual one, or one where there are more guardrails to prevent the dyke-y tendency to U-Haul and get really serious, really quickly? Even if you experienced some bumps and jealousy in your relationship with Thea, there should still be something about being poly that feels exciting or right for you. It can’t just be something you do because you agree with the politics, or because your local queer dating pool leans that way and you’re worried about seeming uncool or not queer enough.

As concepts, love, emotional connection, and romantic feelings are super vague and mean something different to everyone, so it makes sense that Thea’s definition of romantic feelings don’t map onto your own. For me, personally, it’s not possible disentangle my sexual desire from my romantic feelings. I definitely know when I’m in love or have a big nasty crush on someone, but I couldn’t describe my symptoms to you.

I suppose I would define love as a feeling of wanting to be around someone, or seeing them in a really good light. But then I think about all the different people I love, and my love feels different for all of them. What I will say definitively, however, is that the beginning of a relationship should not feel difficult, complicated, or any variety of Bad. When you like someone and they like you back--plus you’re both emotionally available and compatible on a basic level--it feels easy. You don’t have to spend your days trying to decode their words and actions. You don’t obsessively wonder how they feel about you because they tell you so in direct, uncomplicated terms and you’re able to hear what they’re saying, not what you wish they were saying.